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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby ctaulbee » Aug Thu 10, 2017 11:24 am

...and the cat-and-mouse game continues :-$ :D
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby ctaulbee » Nov Thu 30, 2017 6:29 pm

The "Fall Creators" update arrived today with a bang...

When they tell you this may take some time to complete, it's the same as when a doctor says this may cause some slight discomfort.

I didn't really time it but I'd say about 15-20 minutes to finish.

So far I have not seen anything broken which is odd as normally after a big update "something immediately" does not work or works bizarrely.

I have noticed a few minor interface changes nothing major though.

Foggy can get ready to battle Cortana again lol.


:-$

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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Dec Sat 02, 2017 1:15 pm

I haven't seen that update yet, but I'm pretty far down on the update schedule, having held out on the original upgrade until the last minute.

I did, however, get an update several days ago, that ends in .729, which broke my security video LAN monitoring software completely. I haven't been able to figure it out, yet & have decided to go with an HDMI splitter & extended HDMI cables, instead. I have two different software products, the only ones available for this purpose & they BOTH broke. Each of them claims the DVR either isn't online or they can't reach its address. That is BS, because I can ping & netstat it from anywhere else on the LAN, so it's there. Netstat on the machine that runs the monitoring software shows I have 6 open ports TCP to that DVR, so it's live & running. I can still use my 4 separate phone apps to check the cameras, so I know it's working on the LAN, but for some reason, something is interfering with communication to that machine. What's weird is that the monitoring machine is running on hard wire. I can use my phone to wifi into my local router & see the cameras with no problem. So, it's working & communicating through my wifi, but not the hard wire, though the hard wire works for everything else. This is a stumper for me. Unless there's something suddenly & coincidentally gone bad in my router or switch, the hard wire should be more reliable than the wifi. I HATE WIFI.

I can handle Cortana, but thanks for the heads up!  :D
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby ctaulbee » Dec Sat 02, 2017 2:11 pm

My sister just got a new laptop yesterday and I went over to get it fully working, she does not even unpack electronic things lol.

So out of the box it came up in talk to me mode for setup, Cortana took me right thru it with minimal typing.

Took about 15 minutes for all the updates that had came out since it was manufactured to get downloaded and installed, other than that it was pretty painless.

Now she uses Office at work so they provide her with a Office Cloud ID for that, I installed the local apps from there and then setup the online access and configured it all to use cloud drives and synced everything, this way she can get to her files no matter where she is via phone, tablet, her desktop etc.

Well up to that point all was fine, then it wanted to re-start so I let it...

When it came back up Windows decided to install some more updates...

After that the start menu went crazy, like all tiles and buttons on the start menu blinking constantly and none were clickable, so no shutdown, no reboot, no restart lol, using the power button just puts it to sleep as does closing the screen, so none of that had any affect, it's amazing just how little you can do when none of that works and you have no shortcuts anywhere yet.

I got Edge up and looked the issue up online and it said likely update related, well lucky for me Cortana was willing to talk to me so I talked to her and got her to start the updates app for me and sure enough there were many more waiting, after another 45 minutes of downloads, installs and re-starts all updates were done and everything started working as it should again.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Dec Sun 03, 2017 9:03 am

A short single press of the power button makes a laptop sleep, but to hard power down, you need to hold the power button down until the power light goes off. I know that may seem simplistic, but it should work. If that really doesn't work, you can always pull the battery charger out & just let it run until it shuts off from low battery. It's not bad for the battery & will definitely power everything off under Windows control. It can take a couple of hours, but it's an option.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Dec Sun 03, 2017 10:03 am

Well, I just installed the security DVR monitoring software on a different machine than the one that flaked out after the last Win10 update. This second machine also has had that update & the software works just fine. Clearly, there's something amiss with the original machine. It just happens to be the only HP laptop I have & also happens to be the only one running Win10 Pro. All the rest are Gateway laptops running Win10 Home. I've noticed some odd behavior on the Pro version a couple of times, but it didn't interfere with anything. I give up. I never did like that HP, anyway. I'm retiring it & going hard wired HDMI, tomorrow.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Dec Wed 13, 2017 12:37 pm

I got the Fall Creator's Update to Win10 a couple of days ago & while file system performance seemed to be slower, with things like directory updates not happening automatically when files were copied, etc., it otherwise seemed to be problem free.

Then, yesterday, M$ shipped out a cumulative update for the new version. It ran & got to 100%, then declared it couldn't complete the update & it proceeded to uninstall everything back to where it started. I tried it 3 times & it did the same thing every time. Then, I realized I had disabled Cortana.

Back when I found the method for disabling Cortana, one of the people in the discussion pointed out that as soon as M$ became aware people were doing it, they would simply make it impossible to do updates with it disabled. This appears to be the case. I re-enabled Cortana, ran the update & it went through without a hitch.

I suppose it may be possible to disable Cortana again, now that the patches are in, but I strongly suspect M$ has already taken measures to thwart that, so I won't be trying that without further research.

Ain't it cool?
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby ctaulbee » Dec Wed 13, 2017 12:49 pm

...and the cat-and-mouse game continues :-$ :D
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby chouette » Dec Wed 13, 2017 11:05 pm

Anything related to Windows is far from being cool. At least you guys know what you're doing. :-<
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Wrench » Dec Thu 14, 2017 12:00 am

The Creator strikes again. Doing a Win 10 update (fresh install) for a customer. What a joke Cortana now walks you thru the end of the install.
They still didn't do anything with the updates. Still all automatic with on option to turn it off as promised.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby stardragon9 » Dec Thu 14, 2017 4:12 am

Hey everyone! just wanting to add my own Windows 10 woes to the discussion.  Last week the latest update downloaded onto my laptop.  Everything seemed to work fine until two days later.  I went to turn the laptop on and you could hear everything running but the monitor wouldn't turn on.  I took it to a computer repair store and found out that the update had messed with the bios file on my video card bad enouh that they needed to replace the mother board.  So they replaced the mother board and the laptop started working again.  Problem solved right?  Wrong!  M$ apparently places the registration number for windows 10 on the mother board (when I bought the laptop it had just gone through the free update to windows 10.  Contacted customer service and they wanted me to pay for the full version of 10, even though this whole issue was caused by one of their updates!  Luckily the computer place was wiĺling to reset my laptop back to windows 7 pro.   :-?  :-!  :-(  :-(  :-(  :roll
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Dec Thu 14, 2017 10:51 am

stardragon9 wrote:Hey everyone! just wanting to add my own Windows 10 woes to the discussion.  Last week the latest update downloaded onto my laptop.  Everything seemed to work fine until two days later.  I went to turn the laptop on and you could hear everything running but the monitor wouldn't turn on.  I took it to a computer repair store and found out that the update had messed with the bios file on my video card bad enouh that they needed to replace the mother board.  So they replaced the mother board and the laptop started working again.  Problem solved right?  Wrong!  M$ apparently places the registration number for windows 10 on the mother board (when I bought the laptop it had just gone through the free update to windows 10.  Contacted customer service and they wanted me to pay for the full version of 10, even though this whole issue was caused by one of their updates!  Luckily the computer place was wiĺling to reset my laptop back to windows 7 pro.   :-?  :-!  :-(  :-(  :-(  :roll


Ah, yes, Windows Authentication, introduced with WinXP, which was the beginning of the modern totalitarian era of M$. They tie your authentication not only to the motherboard, but your video card, audio card, your hard drive, and any other internal device that has an ID. Changing 6 of these IDs will invalidate your authentication. This is a bigger issue with laptops because all of these devices are often on the motherboard & can't be easily replaced individually.

The bigger problem you've discovered is that the Windows 'fee' upgrade to Win10 only applies to the original machine it was provided to. Once you change enough hardware to invalidate your authentication, you either buy it or lose it.

I fought this battle, keeping my Win2K until XP was almost expired. I upgraded to XP when my software started refusing to run because M$ threatens the software companies with losing their M$ certification if they continue to support expired OS's. The sad fact remains... one day, in the near future, all versions of Windows prior to Win10 will be officially retired. At that point, you must buy Win10 or move to another operating system.

I went down that road, but the vast majority of the software world lives on Windows. Linux & Mac may support most of what you want, but they didn't support what I needed. I moved on up to Win10. If I have a problem with a laptop similar to what you just experienced, I'll buy another laptop with a free version of Win10 already on it. Laptops are cheap enough it's a better investment than changing the MB & reverting to Win7.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby stardragon9 » Dec Thu 14, 2017 8:18 pm

Fogdude wrote:I fought this battle, keeping my Win2K until XP was almost expired. I upgraded to XP when my software started refusing to run because M$ threatens the software companies with losing their M$ certification if they continue to support expired OS's. The sad fact remains... one day, in the near future, all versions of Windows prior to Win10 will be officially retired. At that point, you must buy Win10 or move to another operating system.

I went down that road, but the vast majority of the software world lives on Windows. Linux & Mac may support most of what you want, but they didn't support what I needed. I moved on up to Win10. If I have a problem with a laptop similar to what you just experienced, I'll buy another laptop with a free version of Win10 already on it. Laptops are cheap enough it's a better investment than changing the MB & reverting to Win7.


Yeah, I am hoping that my laptop last for a little while longer.  In the meantime I am going to start saving for the inevitable day when I will be forced to upgrade to a newer laptop.  :(
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Apr Thu 04, 2019 11:21 am

Well, I've been through many Win10 updates, now. I've gone through several "Creator's Updates", even the disastrous 1809. I had 3 of my machines that got the 1809 update & had no problems with any of them, including the one I'm typing on, right now... until yesterday.
I got up early, as usual & checked for updates on my Lenovo laptop, which I only use for certain tasks & has limited stuff installed on it. It is on the 1809 version, also. There was a cumulative update available, so it installed (just FYI, when you check for updates manually, ANYTHING that is available will AUTOMATICALLY download & install). There were no issues. Cumulative updates rarely cause trouble.
Then, given the uneventful update on the Lenovo, I decided to go ahead with it on this machine. The update ran & all seemed fine. I typed in my Windows password at the login screen & immediately was presented with the dreaded BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) (BTW, in the olden days, the screen, in these instances, would be black & it was originally called the Black Screen Of Death, but PC culture made quick work of that.)
Having no choice, I waited for the system to create a dump log & reboot. Assuming it was a transient event, I logged in again, to see the exact same problem.  Now, in recent months, I'd had BSODs during Skype sessions. In each case (3 of them)  a specific driver for Logitech was specified at the end of the SYSTEM SERVICE EXCEPTION message, at the middle of the screen. In the current instance, though, it specified nothing at all. No specifics to help pin down what was causing it. I assumed it to be my webcam (Logitech) so I unplugged it while the system rebooted. The problem persisted. I tried this 9 times & finally decided to put in my Emergency Repair DVD & boot up on that. Using the advanced options, I first tried restoring to an earlier restore point. I had 2 to choose from. I chose the most recent, of course. It restored successfully, but had no effect on the problem. Still getting BSOD when I tried to log in. I restored the earlier (& only other) restore point. Same result. Whatever went bad during the Windows Update, restore points didn't cover it. So, I tried rolling back the most recent Windows update. This should certainly work, right? Nope. Same problem. The next option was to reverse the last Feature Update, rolling me back to 1803. The Repair disc told me that was no longer an option. I'm going to assume this was because I had already removed the Windows Update folders that were used to install that last. So, now, my only remaining option was to restore from a backup. I was quite sure I had made a system image (I always do images because file by file won't fix a case like this) just a couple of weeks ago. I opted to do a restore & Windows located the image. I didn't look at the date, as it was the only one available. The restored went fine & I am now using my machine again, on the 1803 version, which was current when I made the image. The problem is, that image was from LAST JULY!!!
Now, I have my system back, with all my software out of date, none of the recent work I'd done on many files & records I keep locally. No emails (kept locally) since last July, no covers I had downloaded since July, several programs still installed that I had long ago removed, several programs no longer installed, which I had installed since July.
I've been working on this machine since the restore. I'll be working on it for at least a week, just getting it back to a semblance of normal, but there are thousands of things I will simply never get back. Yes, I should have been doing regular file backups, as well, but in the 50+ years I've been doing this, this is the first time I've personally had such a catastrophe. I've learned my lesson. I won't be storing quite so much of my stuff on the local drive, for one thing.
Lessons:
1. Make regular images of your system drive.
2. Do file backups as often as you think you need to.
3. Never manually check for a Windows Update.
4. If you didn't understand what I wrote above, find someone you trust who does.

NOTE: Though I was unable to log in, my system was up & functioning. I was able to connect to mapped drives from the Lenovo. If I'd had my wits about me, I would have copied off everything I could BEFORE doing the image restore & saved myself the agony & loss. What can I say? I was like a dog with a bone & focused on system recovery, not thinking about the damage I was about to do myself. I knew full well the image restore would cause loss, but I was assuming it was only a couple of weeks old, not 9 months. Another cautionary learned just a bit too late.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Pip » Apr Thu 04, 2019 1:01 pm

I tried Windows 10 for a little while but soon reverted to Windows 7, Once support ends I'll go to Linux.

BTW another big update due for you next month. "Microsoft has announced that the next major Windows 10 feature update will be called Windows 10 May 2019"
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby chouette » Apr Thu 04, 2019 7:33 pm

OMG Foggy, that is horrible! I have multiple computers and laptops on Windows 10 like you and those stupid Windows updates never affects them the same. Rarely do they all go smoothly with no issues at all. Normally I leave the issues alone and live with it as I don't have your expertise with computers. If something gets deleted, I reinstall it as I keep everything I need on a disc or flash drives. God forbid if something major ever happens, then I'm screwed, lol

That's not encouraging news Pip. A major update can only mean trouble with a major headache!
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Fogdude » Apr Fri 05, 2019 11:57 am

M$ comes out with a "Creator's" or "Feature" Update every year, usually around September to November. The last one was disastrous. They're still not even offering it to all users. Intel provided M$ with a lot of new driver updates, which they apparently never fully tested. M$ accepted them blindly & included them in the last "Creator's Update" last year (around October). It caused a lot of data loss for many users & they pulled it in 3 days. They then started releasing it if their health checker indicates your system can handle it. Three of my machines got it quite early, as did this one. The other two are still running it fine, but this one choked on something, which I'll never figure out, since all logs & anything diagnostic went away when I restored.

The main thing is to simply never do a manual check for updates. If it's essential & mandatory, it will be pushed to your computer automatically. On those, you get no choice, but there's no good reason to open up yourself to "alpha" testing, which is, apparently, now the policy, at M$.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Wrench » Apr Fri 05, 2019 1:25 pm

For all the problems M$ is having with Win 10 that's why I still use Win 7.
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Pip » Apr Fri 05, 2019 3:19 pm

Wrench wrote:For all the problems M$ is having with Win 10 that's why I still use Win 7.

Get ready for the end of life nag screen. It's already installed via auto updates. KB4493132

https://www.ghacks.net/2019/03/20/if-you-dont-want-end-of-support-notifications-on-windows-10-block-kb4493132/
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Wrench » Apr Fri 05, 2019 3:28 pm

Pip wrote:
Wrench wrote:For all the problems M$ is having with Win 10 that's why I still use Win 7.

Get ready for the end of life nag screen. It's already installed via auto updates. KB4493132

https://www.ghacks.net/2019/03/20/if-you-dont-want-end-of-support-notifications-on-windows-10-block-kb4493132/


I don't do auto updates, and I hid that one already. Thanks for the warning though Pip
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Re: Windows 10 Updates - A Cautionary Tale

Postby Wrench » Jun Sat 01, 2019 3:04 pm

Hay Foggy what do you think about the new 1903 version of Win 10?
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